Re: Leds for salt

by DonnieP Mon 09 Apr 2012, 12:24 pm

Man thats crazy bright! I have a jbj hood with 25-3 watt 14k leds and it bleaches my corals! I took it apart just this morning and unplugged two of the five led strips so now I just have 15-3watt 14k leds running. I think this will be plenty. From my reading I find that with high end leds 2 watts per gallon should be plenty for sps and lps coral. I will find out soon. How are your corals doing?

by matt_longview Mon 09 Apr 2012, 3:25 pm

BBAILEY_TYLER wrote:alright guys i am having a algee problem and it has to be due to leds only started when i put them on, need help??? i have (2) apollo led pendants each are 209 watts apeice. the light fixture is (72) 3 watts epie leds with (48) - daylight 14,000k white and (24) - blues 460nm now i have a couple questions for everyone running leds?

1) what are you light schedules? start to finish
Blues on at 12:30
Whites on at 2:30
Whites off at 8:30
Blues off at 10:30

2) what light index for whites and blues?
Not sure what this question means exactly. I woke up at 4:45... pardon me if my brain simply isn't working! Lol

3) what hight you have your fixtures from the water?
6 inches, could easily go higher and still have plenty of light. Does your light have optics? The lower the optic degree number, the higher you place the fixture. Mine has no optics.

4) what fixture and specs?
Evolution LED 120w
120 1 watt LEDs, 60 Neutral White, 60 Royal Blue

I'd say check your phosphates with a low range test kit. I'd imagine they're up around .1 or so but just isn't showing up on high range test kits. Add some GFO if it's above .02.

Lighting is only 1 thing required to grow algae. There must also be either nitrates, phosphates or silicates. Phosphates come from food, silicates come from water that isn't 0 tds.

The lighting makes it easier for the algae to use the other good sources that are available to them, so outbreaks do often happen when changing to higher lighting. Even if tests show 0 on your results, you know the algae is using them somehow... so their is something in the water! :-)

by DonnieP Mon 09 Apr 2012, 6:44 pm

Matt is correct, something is fueling the algae other than lights. My lights were intense but never grew algae. If you are feeding fish you should cut back to once every other day and don't be dumping coral food in the tank, they dont need it and the algae will love it.

by BBAILEY_TYLER Mon 09 Apr 2012, 10:22 pm

Well the fixtures both have 90 degree optics and I have them about 8-9 inches above water but have been dosing coral bite twice a week and the two part calcium and alkolinity chemicals but that's it will stop coral bite and I feed everyother day meats and all three tangs have plenty of algea to grub on and snails I have probably 100 narrasius bur any others that eat algea off rocks? Probably 70 red/blue leg hermits. Do y'all run carbon in your refuge/sump? Definatly changing light scheduale, as far as corals I started lights at 13 inches above water now 8-9 but the corals that I picked up at the swap all of them have doubled some quaddrupled in size so I think they are doing good none have bleached.

by DonnieP Mon 09 Apr 2012, 10:28 pm

Can you post pics of the corals? The coral in my tank would grow like crazy but loose color and this is a sign of to much light.

by matt_longview Mon 09 Apr 2012, 11:37 pm

Yes I run carbon and gfo... Also run biopellets. So I've got tons of nitrate and phosphate export going on.

Clean up crew sounds good. Habits don't seem terribly off. I'd stop the coral food until the algae problem is taken care of. How often do you do water changes, how much water is switched and how much flow do you have in the tank (not counting return pump)? Are you growing macroalgae in the sump?

by BBAILEY_TYLER Tue 10 Apr 2012, 5:32 pm

I do water changes about every other month and sometimes every three months, i have had great success in the past with this schedule? but what do yall think? i change about 30 - 35% of the water. flow wise i have two power heads on the opposite ends of the tank not really any dead spots in the tank mabey just a couple small one behind all my rock work but i dont think so because i can see the algea pretty much everywhere in the tank swaying and all corals have good movement.
The first pic is a frag off of the next pic it fell off so i relocated it
Leds for salt - Page 2 2012-010

this a cool pic where my phone turned my tank into a cartoon, lol
Leds for salt - Page 2 2012-014

all these corals were really small if yall remember from the swap but the color on the first coral cant remember what it is called but the color is a lot better than in the pic i took the pic with a phone so only like 8 meg. pixs

by BBAILEY_TYLER Tue 10 Apr 2012, 5:48 pm

in the next to last pic you can see the algea i am dealing with by the torch corals at the bottom left and also at top left back in the open space it is slimmy yellow green and has some bubbles in it but not much

by BBAILEY_TYLER Tue 10 Apr 2012, 5:50 pm

have decided to cover the center two pods on both of my fixtures and will get some carbon and bio pellets and am reasearching the gfo.

by ritter678 Tue 10 Apr 2012, 5:51 pm

BBAILEY_TYLER wrote:in the next to last pic you can see the algea i am dealing with by the torch corals at the bottom left and also at top left back in the open space it is slimmy yellow green and has some bubbles in it but not much

I can't see it from my phone but it sounds like Dinoflagellates.

by J.Davis Tue 10 Apr 2012, 6:17 pm

Chemi-clean should take care of your Dino problem. You'll need to follow the directions EXACTLY. I've used it several times with great results.

"I do water changes about every other month and sometimes every three months"

You should be doing these a lot more fequently IMO. That's way too long. I change 25-30g in a 250g system every two weeks. I think putting off water changes past 2 weeks is asking for trouble. Most successful reefers do a 10% weekly or 20% bi-weekly. I would think this would help AFTER you use the Chem-clean.

by matt_longview Tue 10 Apr 2012, 6:52 pm

Growth and colors look good. Next thing I would do is get a low range phosphate kit and test.

I'd research the crap out of biopellets. You'll need to put them in a reactor with high flow and start out very slowly. Literally add a few tablespoons for the first few weeks.

I added them successfully but also very slowly... monitoring phosphates after increasing the pellets daily with a hannah checker. Also added bacteria strains to my dosing. MB7 and ZeoBak.

GFO is much more common and has a longer track record.

After saying all that. I believe biopellets are the most successful media for increasing denitrifying bacteria in an aquarium and therefore reducing nitrates and phosphates... but can also cause a tank crash if not introduced and maintained properly.

by Yeti Tue 10 Apr 2012, 8:58 pm

Brent it's been a while since I've seen your tank, and wow it's certainly come on a lot.
As for the slime, can't help you there, I'm fighting a red slime on about 3 rocks at the moment.

by BBAILEY_TYLER Tue 10 Apr 2012, 11:20 pm

Thanks a lot everyone gona do my homework and put most of this in affect, so Matt do you think a gfo/carbon reactor would've a good start I have not ever messed with reactors so Im not sure biopellets sound difficult and crashing the tank is the last thing I want to do. Anyone have a reactor for sale? What is a good brand to dose gfo and carbon with one unit? That dont cost an arm and a leg?

by matt_longview Wed 11 Apr 2012, 12:51 am

Yes I'd recommend GFO and carbon. They need to be run separate though. Carbon needs high flow and packed tight. GFO needs low flow and tumbling slightly.

Still research how much to use and the exact type of algae you've got. A low range phosphate checker will tell you if gfo is needed and also when it is exhausted and needs replaced.

You're on the right track though. Those LEDs look nice. :-)

by BBAILEY_TYLER Wed 11 Apr 2012, 12:03 pm

thanks, matt do you think i should do lights out for a few days to try to kill off algea and then incorperate the reactors and where should i put the gfo / carbon reactors at?
oh and i am thinking of covering the center two pods of white lights on both fixtures that will leave me with 48- 14k whites and 48- 460nm blues and each of the leds are 3 watts. total of about 300 watts after i cover the middle 4 pods. you think that will tone it down for the light but be enought light for the corals to grow.

by matt_longview Wed 11 Apr 2012, 1:09 pm

It'll done down the light for sure. Will also give you a bit more blue color. It's tough to know exactly if it'll be enough light without knowing exact numbers of par and spectrum. I believe the brand of LEDs that they use put out approx 1/3rd the par of cree LEDs, so your current number of LEDs is good for an SPS dominant tank. If you cover 1/3rd of your lighting up you'll likely be moving sps up high and have lighting for a mixed reef. Maybe try covering 1 of the two on each side first?

Lights out wouldn't hurt anything. Leave your fuge light on the whole time too. Certain types of algae this will help against... other types it doesn't do as much. If you get a close up pic of the algae we'll be able to id it.

Your reactors can go anywhere really. I like to see the feed pumps pull from the drain side of the pump and exit to the return side... just to help the refugium have a little bit slower flow.

by BBAILEY_TYLER Wed 11 Apr 2012, 8:55 pm

Could I do the carbon in media bags and have them in line in my sump then get a reactor for the ggoner just to keep cost down then get a reactor for the carbon later would that work

by matt_longview Wed 11 Apr 2012, 9:37 pm

It'll work better if you put it inside of a filter sock if you use those or force it across an area of filter pad... something that will force water through the media rather than around it, but yes it can work.

by BBAILEY_TYLER Thu 12 Apr 2012, 8:34 am

I have two 12" media sock and I was going to put them in the bubble trap then all the water has to flow through it, media sock?are Media bag and sock the same thing? I have the filter bags with the draw strings at top, those work

by BBAILEY_TYLER Thu 12 Apr 2012, 9:08 am

Which carbon do y'all think works best the pellets or granials?

by matt_longview Thu 12 Apr 2012, 9:18 am

I would have it in the media bag all closed up, then I'd find a place to put it that would force water through the media. A lot of people put the bags inside a filter sock since water is typically rushing through them. Sounds like you have a good location chosen though. :-)

Not sure which works best... I snag mine from bulk reef supply. Both accomplish the same task.

by BBAILEY_TYLER Fri 13 Apr 2012, 6:26 pm

End of day two with carbon and no lights can seem to get home to see how the tank is doing bit I did lose my blonde naso tang yesterday =[ wife is sad that was her fish and I don't know what happened, work work work its Friday for goodness sake you would think. The oil field would plan and order all there crap on Thursday but never fails

by BBAILEY_TYLER Fri 13 Apr 2012, 6:48 pm

How long should I do lights out before it affects coral, fish and anemone?

by matt_longview Fri 13 Apr 2012, 9:27 pm

Two or three days should be just fine. If you're concerned you could always just lower the photo period to only a couple of hours.

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